Until we purchased a Toyota with NO BRAKES!
Not so Toyota or Route 44 Toyota!
This article is from the NYT:
Toyota Agrees to Settle Lawsuit Tied to Accelerations
Please note the comments. There are the usual shills that pretend attorneys are getting rich, drivers are making up these issues, yet there are some informed, insightful comments.
- amclaussen
- Mexico
Part 1 of 2
As a Scientist and engineer, I'm surprised about the spin that this subject has taken, or more properly, that has been given to, in order to favor or protect someone interests. There is at least one high quality,rigorous and properly formatted study of the known (for decades) phenomena of Tin Whisker growth in circuits. This study concludes that there is a possibility of 140/1,000,000 of these whiskers to produce a failure, which is significant given the quantity of vehicles.
The study is titled: Tin whisker analysis of Toyota’s electronic throttle controls by Bhanu Sood, Michael Osterman and Michael Pecht,
Center for Advanced Life Cycle Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park, Maryland, USA.
Why the government agencies have concluded this failure mechanism was not the root of the uncommanded acelerations is simply not clear to me. the study shows very clear microphotographs of the tin whiskers, and its redaction and methodology is impeccable. I've heard comments on two different groups of scientists of NASA giving their opinions on this subject, but I haven't read them yet. Regardless, this NYT article don't even mention this possibility with the appropriate importance and significance it has.
As a Scientist and engineer, I'm surprised about the spin that this subject has taken, or more properly, that has been given to, in order to favor or protect someone interests. There is at least one high quality,rigorous and properly formatted study of the known (for decades) phenomena of Tin Whisker growth in circuits. This study concludes that there is a possibility of 140/1,000,000 of these whiskers to produce a failure, which is significant given the quantity of vehicles.
The study is titled: Tin whisker analysis of Toyota’s electronic throttle controls by Bhanu Sood, Michael Osterman and Michael Pecht,
Center for Advanced Life Cycle Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park, Maryland, USA.
Why the government agencies have concluded this failure mechanism was not the root of the uncommanded acelerations is simply not clear to me. the study shows very clear microphotographs of the tin whiskers, and its redaction and methodology is impeccable. I've heard comments on two different groups of scientists of NASA giving their opinions on this subject, but I haven't read them yet. Regardless, this NYT article don't even mention this possibility with the appropriate importance and significance it has.
Please read my comment below on the Tin-Whisker Problem. It is feasible
that the company is making a large move directing attention to floor mats,
dumb-driving and other supossed causes, while ignoring real possibilities that
would pose a serious economic risk for the manufacturer. And there is the also
the possibility of bugs (software-errors) caused the accidents. There is a
concept called "The Power of 10: Rules for Developing Safety-Critical Code"...
The NASA study of the Toyota Electronic Throttle Control firmware found at least
243 violations of these rules! (according to Wikipedia
So... before ruling out electronic failures (both hardware and sofware related) government officials should work more professionally to find the thruth. Amclaussen.
So... before ruling out electronic failures (both hardware and sofware related) government officials should work more professionally to find the thruth. Amclaussen.
Toyota's (and its dealers) pattern of misconduct and indifference
continues to date. I have a 2006 Camry and it has a steering column problem
which in a Technical Service Bulletin (#ST001-06) of 2-16-2006, one month after
my purchase, described the problem but told it's dealers: "This repair is
covered under the comprehensive warranty...warranty application is limited to
correction...upon a costomer's specific complaint". Therefore if you didn't
detect the problem they weren't going to fix it. At 90000 miles plus my service
station told me I had the problem (looseness in the steering mechanism) and
found the TSB after considerable computer research. After complaining to 355
Toyota in Rockville, MD they told me they would be glad to fix it at my expense.
I asked them how they could morally and ethically justify the fact that they had
received the bulletin one month after selling the car to me and not advising me.
They hung up. I will never buy a Toyota again...ever! Anybody who does is a
fool!
Mr. Gordon:
Your point is valid, but if had another make of car, you would be saying exactly the same, just to that make. The industry produces a lot of defective designs, most of them minor go unnoticed; from time to time, a big one attracts the attention of the media. Remember the Ford-Firestone case: people lost lives and these companies battled each other for years, ending a previous relation. You correctly saythe information is not as quick to find. Sometime it is not freely available, but can be found talking to shops that see these errors daily. Manufacturers have their own "Code of Un-ethics", more or less the same across all them: first; deny any knowledge that a problem exists, make the owner believe his problem is not common, make him responible for it (was its fault for not following a maintenance program at the dealer-expensive). If the defect IS real, reduce the image that it is widespread. Try to charge the repair, making it appear as an "out of warranty". If all fails, make a deal & pretend it never happened. I'm a DIY person that enjoys auto repair as a hobby, I've above average knowledge of autos and a number of tools. I've heard many complaints from friends and people about design failures, material failures, factory goofes etc. I've seen MANY from ALL makes of cars. They are showing weaknesses and their ways to save money, they all fail, ones more than others, but all of them. Owners need to find the problem, and put the blame where it belongs.
Your point is valid, but if had another make of car, you would be saying exactly the same, just to that make. The industry produces a lot of defective designs, most of them minor go unnoticed; from time to time, a big one attracts the attention of the media. Remember the Ford-Firestone case: people lost lives and these companies battled each other for years, ending a previous relation. You correctly saythe information is not as quick to find. Sometime it is not freely available, but can be found talking to shops that see these errors daily. Manufacturers have their own "Code of Un-ethics", more or less the same across all them: first; deny any knowledge that a problem exists, make the owner believe his problem is not common, make him responible for it (was its fault for not following a maintenance program at the dealer-expensive). If the defect IS real, reduce the image that it is widespread. Try to charge the repair, making it appear as an "out of warranty". If all fails, make a deal & pretend it never happened. I'm a DIY person that enjoys auto repair as a hobby, I've above average knowledge of autos and a number of tools. I've heard many complaints from friends and people about design failures, material failures, factory goofes etc. I've seen MANY from ALL makes of cars. They are showing weaknesses and their ways to save money, they all fail, ones more than others, but all of them. Owners need to find the problem, and put the blame where it belongs.
Electronic causes for sudden acceleration in Toyotas likely, new study finds
Posted: August 30, 2011
In conducting their analysis of Toyota’s engine control systems, CALCE researchers Bhanu Sood, Michael Osterman, and Michael Pecht did agree with NASA scientists who found that “tin whiskers” were present in the accelerator pedal units of every potentiometer they examined. But whereas NASA relied on an analysis of warranty data provided by Toyota’s defense expert Exponent to conclude that the tin whiskers did not present a safety hazard, the CALCE scientists found them to be “a cause for concern.”
Tin whiskers are crystalline structures, many times thinner than a human hair, that often form on the tin solder and emanate on the surface of printed circuit boards, causing shorts / current leakage paths and electronic malfunction.
While the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration exonerated Toyota’s electronics after the NASA report, CALCE researchers found as many as six tin whiskers on one potentiometer type accelerator pedal position sensors (APPSs), and concluded “the potential for a tin whisker shorting failure was 140/1 million. Considering the number of vehicles on the road, it is expected that this would present a significant safety hazard.”
Moreover, the CALCE researchers also found that tin whiskers could form in the Engine Control Modules (ECM) of Toyota vehicles, because Toyota used tin-lead solder and tin plating where devices were connected to the circuit, which operates various automotive components much like a computer.
“As previously discussed, tin-fnished leads can grow tin whiskers which can lead to unintended electrical shorts,” Osterman wrote. “We know whiskers can form on tin finished terminalshe said.
“In this case, Toyota has tin plating in a rather sensitive area, where the system relies on changes in resistance to provide a signal for acceleration.”
The findings contradict the report NHTSA released in February concerning the electronic throttle control systems in Toyota, in which Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood asserted, “There is no electronic-based cause for unintended, high-speed acceleration in Toyotas.”
According to the CALCE scientists, “It is highly likely that tin whiskers could induce a failure that is later undetected. For this reason, best practices for electronics design stipulate that tin not be used as a plating material.”
Based on their findings, the CALCE panel found NHTSA’s conclusions irresponsible. “It is very questionable why the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, with a stated mission to ‘save lives, prevent injuries and reduce economic costs due to road traffic crashes, through education, research, safety standards, and enforcement activity,’ has not come out with a requirement that no electronics use pure tin as a material component, since the potential for tin whiskers presents an unreasonable and unnecessary risk.”
Sources:
Independent Scientists Find More Trouble in Toyotas
NASA’s Toyota sudden-acceleration report flawed, researchers find
CALCE Finds Toyota Tin Whiskers a ‘Significant’ Threat
NASA’s Toyota sudden-acceleration report flawed, researchers find
CALCE Finds Toyota Tin Whiskers a ‘Significant’ Threat
Related posts:
- NASA’s Toyota sudden-acceleration report flawed, researchers find
- NHTSA calls on NASA rocket scientists to study Toyota’s electronics
- Lawyers plan to prove NASA’s sudden acceleration report wrong
- Toyota probe turns from sudden acceleration to sudden stalling
- Toyota investigates new sudden acceleration crash in Wisconsin
http://www.rightinginjustice.com/news/2011/08/30/electronic-causes-for-sudden-acceleration-in-toyotas-likely-new-study-finds/
Toyota's Sudden Acceleration Problem May Have Been Triggered ...
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